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Gala
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:09 pm

I think there are a lot of scientists out there who would take objection to your claim that light is not physical.

Besides the scientist angle: think logically about what you're saying. If the light of your AR projection is not "physical" to your eyes, is a street light? How about the headlights of a car? They're all light projections. Which one is physical, and which one is not?
As to whether or not you would "notice" one of them, that's a completely valid question! There are ample times when people miss the most astonishingly obvious things! Think about a college student wandering around in the middle of an all-encompassing thought - narrowly escaping being run over by a car, thanks to the driver's reactions! And that's why there's a -2 penalty to all actions - it represents that level of distraction. To some college students I know: a -2 to perception could entirely eliminate their perception dice pool! So, rolling a perception test, with a -2 penalty, even to see the headlights on a car at night could very well result in a failure, or even a glitch.
Most Shadowrunner's, on the other hand, live or die by their perceptive capacity. Usually a -2 to their perception dice pool is not debilitating (though certainly not ideal), and they'll still be in a position to notice that car, streetlight, or the AR overlay being projected in to their eye-balls. All of which are equally real to the person perceiving them.


But, as you correctly point out, neither of us is Sly. What the GM decrees is most certainly the final word on every subject.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:09 pm

The physics of light is definitely beyond my understanding. I think my point was more that Astral Perception looks for the "life force" of an object and that "life less" objects seem to blur into colorless almost shapeless morass. However, I have to point out that your average college student doesn't have any skill in perception and is only of average intuition. I'm sure that specific majors are more likely to have higher or lower scores in these areas. A -2 to them isn't likely to do much as you can't have a negative pool. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:36 am

You cant perceive the matrix in astral not even AR since all you see are aura..your Augmented reality no having one you cannot perceive it

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:30 am

You're both correct! As was mentioned previously, and is clearly stated in many places in the book, Astral Perception is not something which uses eyes. A totally blind magician can still function fairly well while using astral perception. So Augmented Reality, which actively requires the eyes to be able to use, is impossible to use while using solely astral perception.

The statement was not that you can use Astral Perception, and apply an AR overlay to the Astral plane. Since they use different perceptive capacities, that would be an absurd assertion. Instead, the statement is that you can (and the book does state this) use your eyes for physical perception, while also using Astral Perception at the same time. In addition, the book states that doing so applies a -2 penalty to all actions while you're using both your physical perception and your astral perception at the same time.
For a real-life example of how this works: have you ever tried to "follow" a sound? Think about how you have to behave. You walk a few steps, then you stop and listen intently, then you walk a few more steps... etc. Why do you do it this way? Because it's legitimately difficult to navigate visually while your intently focused on aural perception.
The same theory applies to using visual perception while using astral perception at the same time. Since they are mentally conflicting actions, you have a hard time doing both (hence, the -2 to all actions). That being said: Augmented Reality is very much a "real" thing to the viewer, and if you're using your physical perception, then an AR overlay will be a part of the physical information being perceived, picked up by your brain, and processed. The question of whether or not you can actually process the AR information being picked up by your eyes is a question that can be solved quite simply by a perception -2 test. Score 0 hits, and you didn't process the AR information! Score only 1, and you only processed the "loud" AR information - the stuff using bold colors, bright lights, and large flashy text. Etc.

Now take the opposite side of this situation: if you honestly believe that AR shouldn't work while viewing Astral, does that mean that Shapeshifters cannot read text messages on their commlinks, ever? They have to have their commlinks set up for "Blind" users, and read out all text-based information to them audibly? How about when they send a text message? Most Commlinks don't have key-pads anymore, since everything is done through AR - does that mean that shifters can only send text based information, or find contacts through voice-recognition software? Remember: Shifters are subject to all the benefits and negatives of the "Dual Natured" critter power, which means that they are always viewing the Astral plane.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:08 am

Ah, I think I see your point. It is definitely easier to close my eyes when trying to pinpoint a sound. I think the confusion on my part comes from the use of terms like "view," "look at" and "read" because they automatically bring me to the concept of physical sight. This is further complicated when considering forms of "vision" in the game system like a Troll's infrared and "standard" wavelength vision. The game only allows one at a time, not a continuum. This thinking has thus biased me for other forms of "vision" despite the noted caveat that it is psychic, not physical. Which is why it is "astral perception" not "astral vision."

How would VR work. The rules state that the -2 is for physical tests, not mental ones. VR is totally mental, but there would still be the constant influence of astral perception of the immediate surroundings. Unless, because both are completely mental interactions, the VR crowds out the astral? Sort of like how visible light seems to crowd out infrared for Trolls?

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:33 am

Actually, I believe that the book specifically states that VR is incompatible with all other perception. I am at work, and don't have my books available to me, so I can't check that until tonight.

That said: As I remember it, VR is an "immersion" experience, requiring the entirety of the brain's perceptive capacity. So it's not like any character can utilize visual perception, physically, while being in VR at the same time - they can't. Similarly, a character can't hear or feel anything while being in VR.
The magic equivalent of VR is Astral Projection - there is no actual connection to the character's body any longer. So if someone were to attempt to make a hearing-check, using their physical body, while projecting, I would simply not allow it. "You're not in your body." And there is no need for further argument. If a character wanted to monitor their body, I would require them to create an external monitor of some sort: a spell, a ward, or summon a Spirit.
My understanding of VR (and again, I don't have my books) is that it works in much the same way. The character's mind/body connection is entirely severed for the duration of VR usage. They are quite literally "immersed" in the matrix. And like the possible magic external monitoring, there are ways to monitor a character's "meat" while in VR as well - bio-feedback can be created as part of the VR setup, cameras and mics can monitor the area, and "targeting" programs can be set up to notice any kind of disturbances. etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:07 am

Addictions make everything harder for people.

If I am unable to VR for 4 hours PsiWing will have an audio only chat with WireHead and get him to start digging up info. The with a -1 dice pool from the 4 hour burn out he will try his VR search then.

Let me know Sly I can add a new post to the ic section today or tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:19 pm

Laughing I guess when you have a plastered pixie the best thing the little guy can do is call a friend to help him out until the buzz runs dry. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:31 pm

This is for the COM Searching Invisible castle is down i guess i cant get in


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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:31 pm

The member 'Ghostmaker' has done the following action : Dices roll

'D6' :
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:22 am

Well that sucks..here is Consolation Etiquette roll for her question to Little-Bear

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:22 am

The member 'Sly Hound' has done the following action : Dices roll

'D6' :

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:07 am

Opposed Roll, Perception + Charisma = 5

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:07 am

The member 'Wreck' has done the following action : Dices roll

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:09 am

This would move Little-Bear from Neutral to "positive." I don't know what the hostility/suspicion order is.

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 pm

Breaker Etiquette roll to engage the bartender.
Charisma 7 + Negotiations 6 - defaulting Negotiations for Etiquette 1 + Glamour 3 + First Impression 2 + Kinesics 3 = 21-1 = 20
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 pm

The member 'Gala' has done the following action : Dices roll

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:55 pm

Hacking programs rolls are the fallowing

Stealth on at 3
Exploit 3 + Agent 3 = 6
ROLL #1
Browse 3 Agent 3 = 6
ROLL #2

I'll roll twice one for each of these two actions. Since this is not a big hack I'm only going for user level account. so no +'s to the TN.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:55 pm

The member 'scawire' has done the following action : Dices roll

#1 'D6' :


--------------------------------

#2 'D6' :

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:07 pm

With the Pocket hacker set to give out an alert if it sets off any alarm PsiWing will keep his ears open for the audio warning. If this happens he will turn off the mook Commlink.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:38 pm

Gala go ahead and roll etiquette for your query

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:49 pm

Let me know when the buzz is gone from the 4 hour high that way PsiWing can then start doing his own hacks. with a minus 1 but still better then the mook.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:03 pm

Check for possible Hotels.

Agent 3 browse 3 = 6


Other Possible locations

Agent 3 browse 3 = 6
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:03 pm

The member 'scawire' has done the following action : Dices roll

#1 'D6' :


--------------------------------

#2 'D6' :

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Buisness OOC   Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:46 am

Errr Gala why do you had your Negotiation on a etiquette roll?

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