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Dr_Cynic
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PostSubject: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:26 pm

Is bone lacing and Bone density augments compatible? And if so, do the bonuses stack?
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Kesslan
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:14 pm

As I understand it they are effectively mutually exclusive. Or at least do not stack bonuses.
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:21 pm

Actually, only Bone Lacing is Exclusive, being forbidden. Bone Density isn't even Restricted.
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:32 pm

Ah, just found it...

Are bone lacing cyberware and bone density bioware compatible?

No. A character can have both, but only the highest bonus would apply.

Heh, too bad. That would have really beefed up Alex... On second thought, I probably wouldn't do it anyway... It'd make the already 600 pound Troll even heavier...
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:50 pm

Thats what I ment by them being exclusive.

It's been my experience that any ware/bio with similar effects were NOT compatible with each other, in most cases.
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:52 pm

More's the shame. Ah well, Alex is detached enough, he don't need no more ware at the moment. Though one guy managed to make a character, 400 BP, with .016 Essence left... That's pushing it....
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PostSubject: As I have searched and found.   Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:40 pm

I have not seen any rules saying they do not stack.
So I would say they do up to your Racial Augmented Maxium, Which is your Racial Natural Attribute Maxium times 1.5. For a Troll's Body is 15
Refering to pg 330-340 SR4 and Augmentation. Any and all non-stacking and incompatable Cyber/Bioware specfies this in their individual descriptions. Bone aug and Bone Lacing Pg 335 SR4 do not. Examble of conflict Musle Replacement Pg 336 SR4 and Musle Toner/Augmentation Pg 341 SR4, Dermal Plateing pg. 335 SR4 and Orthoskin Pg 341 SR4, example of not stacking Reaction Enhacers Pg 336 SR4 and any other Initive Boosters.

If you have found something more specific then this please post Page number, book where it is and what it says. I am not perfect, just better then average.

Please note I use the physical book page numbers not PDF page numbers.

Also Remember: Essence losses from cyberware and bioware are tracked separately. Only the higher of the two totals deducts from Essence in full, with the other deducting at half. For example, if a character has an Essence loss of 1.5 from cyberware and 2.5 from bioware, then the character’s Essence is 6 – 2.5 (full
bioware) – 0.75 (half cyberware), or 2.75. Players should keep track of both, as it’s possible one can outpace the other as the character implants more cyber or bio into his body. Pg 86 SR4
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:11 pm

as for what ive read as far as the rules for Bioware/Nanoware/Geneware and Cyberware, the only exclusives there is, are when theres a complete replacement sucha as the example given by Ou
with Muscle Replacement and Mucle Enhancement, as the Cyberware Version replaces the Muscle where as Bioware just Enhances the alredy existing muscle. wereas the Bone Lacing and Bone Augmentation are stackable, mainly becasue Bone Lacing give a +1 die for teh type of Lacing it is, Plastic = +1 Aluminum = +2 and Titanium = +3, it does not add to your body except for when calculating Damage. Bone Augmentation however does add to the body by the value of its rating. Bone Aug is limited by the maximum sugmented value of your metatype

Now Geneware is the interesting one as it has its own set of rules which may or maynot be afected by the metatype augmented maxes. You can find the rules for it in the Augmentation book, i willnot delve into that here though
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PostSubject: In Genetech   Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:51 pm

I have not seen any that break the Max Rac Aug Att. There is one that allows you to raise it buy one.
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:16 pm

Ah, sorry, I got that info directly from the FAQ of the official site. I probably should have cited that. I apologize.

http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/faq.shtml

Forgive an old troll.

Edit: Wow, so I have more essence than I thought. Thank you. No I don't. Thankfully CharGen is a wonderful, wonderful program.
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:49 pm

Geneware, which i remember reading can allow a Human to have the Strenght of a Troll, which otherwise wouldnot be posible becasue the Augmented max caps it before you can reach that level, though however Geneware is typicaly not available at character creation becasue of its cost
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:12 pm

Roaring Bear wrote:
Ah, sorry, I got that info directly from the FAQ of the official site. I probably should have cited that. I apologize.

http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/faq.shtml

Forgive an old troll.

Edit: Wow, so I have more essence than I thought. Thank you. No I don't. Thankfully CharGen is a wonderful, wonderful program.

No worries Chummer.
Personally I find this ruling unsatisfying, one logic says otherwise, as one makes more cells the other improves them. But if the players disagree with a ruling they can always go the the true final desider: The GM. As long as the GM is consistant, it always falls to GM's Digression. Otherwise known as The Golden Rule. (I hope I am not crosseing WOD with SR4)


Last edited by Ou!!! on Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Bones bones bones   Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:21 pm

Hmm, I dunno. It makes sense from a certain point.

The bones are weighted already, being far denser than the norm. Now if you lace that with Titanium, it gets heavier. Which can also lead to complications because your arms are far heavier than they should, and you muscles are working overtime. So I'd say it'd be harder to hit your targets, but adds a bonus to the damage done. As for resisting damage, I'm not entirely sure. I don't know metallurgy, nor how dense the bones are at each new level. I guess in theory it could make it more sturdy, it might just be like adding sugar to a bowl of Fruit Loops.

In the end, however, The Bone Lacing takes a major Toll on the body, and therefore isn't very reasonable to use if you already have the denser bones. It's a personal choice, but it isn't one I'd make just for the sake of a slightly harder hit, or a slightly better chance at living. Other things that could take it's place is far more valuable.

Just this troll's two cents.

Edit: Also, I was checking, and Bone augment also only deals with damage resistance, same as Bone Lacing.

Edit: Edit: Also, just checked again, Aluminum adds Impact armor, and Titanium adds both Ballistic and Impact. Not enough, I think, to reasonably take the blow to your Essence, but that's just me.
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