Character Consepts: Mages/Mystics/Adepts

This topic is to continue a discussion from this location in a more appropriate one.

Mystic Adept example:

I have Magic 5. I take two points to buy adept powers. That means I can cast force 3 spells without risking over casting. I can also summon force 3 spirits. Anything over force 3 means that I am overcasting, and drain becomes physical, and my max overcast is 6. If I had just been a regular mage, I could cast force 5 spells without worrying too much, and could overcast all the way to force 10... which might be suicide, but... if you need to get that high... you do what you have to.

Bound Spirits: At the start of the game, they can be useful, It's already bound to you, and you can choose the type, force, and # of remaining tasks with no risk. But, it's hard to know what kind of spirit you will need pre-game. If you have time in game to try and summon a spirit (not just bind it) then you can use those points to purchase other things... like more spells, or a magical lodge or spell formulae for spells you don't know yet. Only you can decide if you want a bound spirit at the beginning. I wouldn't do it, but I'm sure that there are plenty of people who would argue otherwise, and they would be right too.

Mentor Spirit: Deciding on if you want a mentor spirit or not depends on the character concept. You don't have to get one, but they do have many advantages. You usually get bonuses to certain tests or spell types. You also get a bonus when summoning a specific type of spirit. They also have downsides. You usually end up with some sort of RP based addiction-like test. For instance, if you take the Raven mentor Spirit, you have to make Willpower tests to NOT take advantage of someone in a bad position. ie: Raven-guy-mage-dude sees a BTL junkie trying to find a fixer. So he makes a Will Test so that he doesn't cast an illusion of a BTL chip to sell him. If he passes, he doesn't think it'll be worth it, if he fails, he gleefully takes this poor slot's money... if the illusion is pulled off.

I had a theory on a mage awhile back, Anyone feel like a joint build on an illusionist investigator?

Yes, that's me, Mr. Buzzkill ^)^

I'll help if you want, but I'm not my best when it comes to mages. Although, I hope to get that way.

well okay, maybe not a mage per se, but how about an infilitrator/investigator, someone that knows who/where/and how to find people and things. id say the two biggest things to consider would be contacts and stealth, combat would probably be somewhere near a second class, maybe throw in a splash of face so they know how to talk there way into information.

I think the most important contact would be a hacker. Someone to get you info on people. I'd say contact level 3 or 4. Also, a diverse range of other moderate contacts, contact levels 2~4.

I agree that combat would be less important, maybe just pistols 1~2 +specialization.

If you make him a mage, spells like clairvoyance/clairaudience would be useful. There are also astral versions of them. Control Emotion might be useful in conjunction with social skills. If you play it right, the GM should grant you circumstance bonuses if you get a person with a Control Emotion spell.

control thoughts wouldn't hurt either, that way when and if you do find someone you can make sure they tell you the truth.

so for the first question would be, what metarace should they be, elf would give us charisma, ork or troll would give us combat, and dwarfs help all around, human gives us more bp and free edge.

and second question would be which class, magician, adept, or mystical adept.

There's also spell that forces the target to only tell the truth. I think control thoughts is better, but the drain is probably lower on the more targeted version.

The elf's charisma is nice if you use a charisma drain tradition. Also it will help the social skills.

Trolls don't make powerful mages, their logic, intuition, and charisma are capped too low to be really good.

Orks also suffer from some of those same negatives.

Dwarf is nice for the higher willpower, so your tradition isn't as important. That also increases counterspelling.

The bonus edge for Humans is always nice, but I think it's your GM that makes edge necessary or not. If the GM is always throwing crazy dreck at you, then edge is a must.

My vote would be elf because the charisma can be used for casting, summoning, and social skills. Also, they have an agility boost, which makes pistols a more useful secondary skill. Or it could run away better...

okay, so we have an elf, now what do we have with that, magician, adept, or mystical adept? my vote would go for magician, adept is cool, but you really dont have the kind of adaptability of a magician, mystical adept would be cool in theory, spend 1 maybe 2 on powers than the rest on spellcasting, magician would be interesting, because with the right spells they can do almost anything, its just a matter of making it worthwhile, because when you start to go downhill on those drain rolls you will be hurting.

thus far as i see it stats would be,
Elf 30
B A R S C I L W E M
3 5 3 2 3 4 3 5 2 5 170bp + 50bp

You really only want 3 for charisma? It's key attribute. You'll be using it in all your social skill checks, all your spell casting, and your drain. I'd bring agility down to 4 and put that point into charisma. You said yourself that once a mage starts to take drain, it gets harder and harder to maintain an effective mage. Heck, I'd go ahead and bring his charisma at least to 5, if not 6 or 7. I know that's more expensive, but it's going to be more important. You wanted Control Thoughts, you can CT an enemy and have him shoot his teammates to protect you.

Adept is definitely out. It's not made fore this sort of thing. If you want it to be a more combat oriented character that's fine, you can go with the facial sculpt/voice manipulation powers. But, I think it should be more or less a thinker, not a shooter.

I personally think that mystical adept is sorta bunk. It hobbles you as a mage and as a phys-ad. Straight Magician is the way to go.

Actually... I've got a similar character in my character page. . Amon Not that I think you should follow it exactly, but you can see what I chose. Granted, there are somethings that I would do differently if he were an investigator. This character is basically scum. ^)^ He uses people, and likes to keep them in his pocket for later.

okay, i can see where you are going with this Wreck.
Elf 30
B A R S C I L W E M
3 4 3 2 5 4 4 5 2 5 190bp + 50bp
magician 15bp

so that puts us at 285 altogether at the moment.
so what do we work on next, skills, qualities, equipment, or spells?

I think qualities should be next. Skills and spells and EQ should fit the character concept, and I think qualities always give you a better feel for that.

alrighty then, because our charcter will probably be spellcasting A LOT, you are going to need to resist drain really well, and then also be able to cast multiple spells fairly well, the quality Concentration helps quite a bit with resisting drain, and i don't know of any to help cast multiple spells. A bad quality could be to use Sensitive system, magicians in and of themselves can in theory use cyber- and bioware, but for our character, lets not even make it an option. so for now lets take sensitive system to give us back some points, and take concentration at level 1, because twenty points for two situational only dice is a little costly.

I agree with sensitive system. I like how they made a perfect "negative" quality to off-set the 15 point buy of magician. Let's face it, the moment your mage is adding cyber... he's dreck.

Before picking concentration, I think we need to decide if the char should be focused on spells or spirits, or evenly adaptable. Spirits are nice, but they are unpredictable and hard to control. But that doesn't mean taking aspect. Also, if it's going to be a face, first impression is always good.

but mentor spirit can be useful too. depending on the tradition. For charisma I'd say shaman, black magic, or shinto. At least, those are the only three I can remember.

i like black magic and shinto for the tradition, but by name only, i don't have the street magic book so i really don't know, although i did just get the arsenal book, hehehe, weapons.

anyways, your right First Impression is probably a must, i think a spell focus would be a good idea because spirits are unpredictable, but they could in theory be useful, so possibly focus on spell tossing, probably use spirit mentor to give us an edge on our particular type of spells, and infiltration. for our mentor Trickster, Seductress, moon maiden, or cat (choose infiltration tests). All of these mentors help with either infilitration tests, illusion tests, manipulation tests, or some combination of those three. personally cat sounds like the best option, they don't prefer to kill and they help with both illusion and infiltration tests.

the only thing i could see using a spirit for would be informant or another body in a fight, otherwise its kinda lost on our character.

Qualtities wise, Bad luck is decent, because i don't personally rely on edge, and its draw back isn't that bad, a one in six chance your edge roll critically fails, it could be worse, and its 20 bp.

Your right, with 10 dice rolling against drain, we probably won't need concentration that badly. As long as your careful with casting multiple spells at once, you get minus two to roll for both spellcasting and drain resisting per extra spell.

so we have

Elf 30
B A R S C I L W E M
3 4 3 2 5 4 4 5 2 5 190bp + 50bp
magician 15bp
first impression 5bp
mentor spirit 5bp

sensitive system 15bp
bad luck 20bp

brings us to 260bp total.

Bad Luck... well I can agree that it's less likely to screw you over, but if it does, it screws you hard. Also, I don't see the point in buying edge if you are going to take Bad Luck. I would assume that you don't plan on using edge in that case.



Street Magic Charisma Based Traditions are:
Aboriginal: Dreamtime, mostly primordial animal spirits, patient, wise, act only after lots of deliberation and planning, mostly Australia
Aztec: an animals spirit "holds" the other 1/2 of your soul, must have a mentor spirit, wear fancy headdress/costume, mostly SA/Denver
Black Magic: Ultimate focus is personal power, lots of modified Christian Hermetic motifs, make "pacts" with spirits.
Christian Theurgy: God-blessed, use of Christian Hermetic/modified qabbalism/gnostic cosmology, "Consorting" with spirits is often considered "summoning" or "necromancy" which are heretical practices
Norse: Pantheistic, possession type tradition, trance states used to perform magic/summon spirits
Path of the Wheel: Tir na nO'g, Fascist with obvious Racial superiority issues (which could be used to get the "Racist" negative quality... but that may cause all kinds of issues in game). It's really too long and convoluted for me to write a quick synopsis.
Shinto: All "magic" is performed via spirits (not meaning you have to summon a spirit to cast spells for you). Use of charms and paper streamers to purify areas. If you've ever watched anime and seen a guy using slips of paper with stuff written on it that burns and a spell is cast... that's Shinto.
Voodoo: Possession type, must have mentor spirit, mostly Caribbean

Mentor Spirits:
Adversary: + Manipulation and Banishing Tests, - Will+Cha(3) or refuse any orders that don't match char's desires/intentions. Rebel without a cause attitude.
Artificer: + Manipulate and Enchanting Tests, - Will+Cha(3) or must examine, at great length, any new problems/situations that occur. Think the crazy professor/scientist type. Easily distracted by some new idea.
Dragon: + Manipulation and Negotiation Tests, - Will+Cha(3) to be able to follow advice/orders that aren't char's own or accept defeat gracefully. Single minded, strong personality... doesn't like not being the leader.
Horned Man: + Illusion and Guidance Spirits, - Know no boundaries for social behavior, -1 die on all Social Tests
Sky Father: + Detection and Manipulation, - Will+Cha(3) or retaliate aggressively against any slight. Lends well to the Vindictive Negative quality... but I'd be careful about doubling up on a quality like that, the GM would be likely to just combine the two thresholds, which would make it really, really hard to NOT end up acting like a spoiled brat.
Spider: + Detection and Illusion, - Will+Cha(3) to make a quick decision. Would be a good mentor spirit to go with Aboriginal as they tend to be slow decision makers anyway.

The way I see it, Horned Man is out because we want a sociable character, Sky Father isn't good for the same reason, if someone insults you, you may end up just killing them... or turning them into a drooling idiot for a while. Cat's nice for the infiltration, but I don't like how you have to make a Test to not screw around with your enemies... that kind of thing can get you killed. Also Cat is very egocentric, I've never liked people like that. But that Infiltration bonus is nice... Dragon is nice because of the Negotiation Tests, but... I don't like the downside. Artificer isn't that useful either... enchanting is great after a few games where you have karma to spend on making foci, and the cost is less for making your own, but that's metagaming.

Of those listed Above I'd pick, in descending order, Spider, Dragon, Sky Father, Cat, Adversary. I've not looked at the core ones because I figure you can do that on your own.

Cat is how you want to think of it almost, they can be egocentric, but they can also be clancentric, they may think of themselves in their position in the clan, but still think of the pride first. Depends on what kind of cat you want to think about i guess. And the other part of Cat is they don't like to kill, untill you piss them off, until then they are perfectly content with scrambling your noggin and leaving the room, at least mine is. That and with a slow planning character you can't really make a snap decision when you really need to. So i guess its either a toss up for the quick thinking but less likely to go for a quick kill Cat, or the methodical Spider. Personally i'd go with cat, but for kicks and giggles lets go with a spider, it should be fun.

As for traditions, how about we go with a norse tradition, i know a ton about nordic mythology and more so than most people should, we could give him or her a viking behavior. Slow, methodical, but brutally efficient. That and elves do play a decent size role in norse myth. Speaking of which, is our character going to be a Male or Female.

And if bad luck is out, how about we go to more filling out a viking kind of behavior, Vikings are always pictured as being proud, boastful, loving of battle and telling tales, always looking for the next challenge and for the next party afterwards, how would we fill in 20 points with that?

so for now we are at
infiltrator/investigator
Elf 30
B A R S C I L W E M
3 4 3 2 5 4 4 5 2 5 190bp + 50bp
magician 15bp
first impression 5bp
mentor spirit (spider) 5bp
(+2 Detection and Illusion, Will+Cha(3) to make a quick decision)

sensitive system 15bp

(280bp so far)

Well, if you want to go Norse, the Norns would be the best "spider" like mentor. The weavers of Fate, eh? They being female, it may be best to have the character be female. Although, I'm usually opposed to males rping females. Not saying that some males can't do it well, but most play them a bit too stereotypically.

I can't think of any good "cat" options for the Norse. Cat's don't play a big role with their myths. Although it's too bad, because I think Cat would fit better with a Norse style of play than Spider. And as a Norse myth tradition, Sky Father and Dragon start to look rather appealing. But Spider is still a nice choice.

I didn't know that elves played that big a role in Norse myth. I remember it being mostly dwarves and giants. Occasionally elves or goblins. But that does sound interesting.

I'm not saying that Bad Luck is out, but... if you want to use it, then I say don't buy the extra point of edge, and use that 10 points to buy skills or spells and contacts. But, if you do drop Bad Luck, then I say you take vindictive. It's a +5 neg quality, Will+Composure(3) to not take immediate, and equal, action against a slight. And, if you "pass" then you can slowly plan out your revenge. That goes well with the spider, but it shows the hot streak that most Norse myths are rife with. I like the "gregarious" barbarian idea. Full of life, laughter, and fun, but there is a temper there and it will surface eventually. Could also give him an alcohol addiction, although I don't like playing with that addiction because either way you have negatives while gaming. You're either drunk, or in withdrawal.

With Bad Luck and 1 Edge:
B A R S C I L W E M
3 4 3 2 5 4 4 5 1 5 190bp +40

magician 15bp
first impression 5bp
mentor spirit 5bp

sensitive system 15bp
bad luck 20bp

Total: 250

With out Bad Luck, keeping edge, and vindictive:
B A R S C I L W E M
3 4 3 2 5 4 4 5 2 5 190bp +50

magician 15bp
first impression 5bp
mentor spirit 5bp

sensitive system 15bp
vindictive 5bp

Total: 275

Which book are these extra qualities found in?

The norns may have all been female, but they did have soldiers to carry out their dirty work as well, its been partially known that a few stole einherjar straight out of Valhalla to carry out some missions.

That's a 25 point difference! if everything else were to be the same, we could still afford to buy the 6th point of Magic! I say Bad Luck is nice, but it means that we should drop the edge point.

I think vindictive comes from the Runners Companion. Can't remember and I don't have access to my books right now. My Character Wr3ck has it, so you can look at his sheet to see the effects/price.

okay so here is my idea for our character thus far, and vindictive as you listed it is 10bp with a composure (2) test, which isn't bad, it can be a hardy streak.

B A R S C I L W E M
3 4 3 2 5 4 4 5 1 5 190bp +50

magician 15bp
first impression 5bp
mentor spirit 5bp

sensitive system 15bp
vindictive 10bp
spirit bane (bird) 10bp

this brings us to a grand spanking total of (drum roll):
250 bp, just depends on which way we want to go, now we need to work on skills and spells, i say we spend no more than 21 points on spells, six spells (18bp) should be enough, but you never know. that leaves us with 138 points for contacts, skills and gear.

heh, guess I should have taken my own advice and looked at the sheet too ^)^ I was working from memory, guess I'm getting old. ^)^

Spells... hm... I'd say off the top of my head

Control Thoughts
Mind Probe
Clairvoyance and or Clairaudience: If you only take one, I'd rather take Clairaudience. I think hearing people is better than seeing them.
Improved Invisibility: No good tricking people's brains if their cameras can see you.
And maybe Trid Phantasim: Again, no point in casting illusions if the cameras look right through it. Totally optional though.

So 4 definite spells, and 2 maybes. Anything else?

for spells i went with:

• improved invisibility (no point in giving anything away to cameras)
  
• increased reflexes (faster means we can deal with something quicker)
  
• control thoughts (skip the hole analyze truth and go straight to the source, and its range is los = infinite, and just plain sadistic)
  
• gecko crawl (when you really need to climb inside of a vertical 40 foot shaft)
  
• Manabolt (goes through armor, and we are probably going to need some sort of offensive spell)
  
• how far can you cast clairvoyance/audience, because if you can only watch/listen right next to you, whats the point?
  
  

I'd have to read it again, so I won't be able to say for a while. I think it says LOS, but... lets face it, if that's actually true, then those are the two most useless spells ever! It may be that you need to find a location via the astral, then you can use the spell. I'm pretty sure you have to have "been" at the location before. So Astral Tracking?

I agree with the Improved Reflexes.
Mind Probe is nice though, because you can then read their thoughts. Not just implant them.

What about levitate instead of gecko crawl? You have the ability to carry 200kg per hit, and you aren't restricted to surfaces.