Who said running the shadows was easy? Dodging bullets, swords, spirits, and spells just to name a few. Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, even the occasional Dragon can make any Shadowrun go bad.
 
Shadowrun HomeHomeFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterNew RunnersLog in

Share | 
 

 Few Questions

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Beetayasol
Meat
Meat


Number of posts : 33
Age : 34
Location : Fort Worth, TX
Registration date : 2010-07-16

Character sheet
Character Name: Beetayasol
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:22 am

Surge Question
If I take the SURGE quality and choose to have my Charisma increased by 1 as an Elf, does this increase my overall expenditure of points?

For example. I am trying to make a Face character and decide to max my Charisma as an Elf.

Elf's have a base Charisma of 3 with a max of 8. Does the SURGE come in before or after the BP's are taken into effect?

Without taking SURGE into effect a Charisma of 8=65BP for an Elf
With SURGE in effect would an 8=70BP and a 9=95BP?
If so, if you were to add the exceptional attribute to this would it be 9=80BP and 10=105BP?

--------------

Nerve Strike Question
The Nerve Strike Adept Power does not state if the targets armor adds its rating as protection against this effect. Is it just a dodge or you lose agility or reaction based on how many hits went through even if he is wearing Full Body Armor [Military Grade]?

--------------

Visibility Modifiers
Do negative visibility modifiers stack with each other, or is only the highest visibility modifier taken?

--------------

Break Weapon + Smashing Blow + Increased Unarmed Damage
Do these effects stack with each other? If I use break weapon which states to treat the weapon as a barrier, and I also have Smashing Blow which says to multiply my DV by 2 against barriers, do I do x2 DV of unarmed damage against weapons and barriers. Also, if I have Martial Arts training that increases my unarmed DV by +4 and my base unarmed DV is 2, does that mean that I am doing 6 DV + net hits in damage, as well as 12 DV + net hits in damage against static barriers and against weapons held by opponents? I see that smashing blow has the words "or other static structures," however this comes after the phrase "against barriers." As such, I don't know how it goes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WearzManySkins
Team Leader
Team Leader
avatar

Number of posts : 266
Age : 61
Location : DFW Texas
Registration date : 2010-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: WeaZManySkins
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:15 am

If your Elf takes Metagenetic Improvement (Charisma) that only raises the maximum value for charisma. That means you still pay standard costs for raising Charisma to that new max. Basically it would work like exceptional attribute.

Visibility mods so stack but in some cases you only take the worsts mod ie smoke and thermal smoke you only apply the visibility mods of the worst of the two. But other mods will stack, spirit concealment, with thermal smoke etc.

Nerve Strike is still normal unarmed melee attack so armor will still be used.

IMHO Break Weapon and Smashing Blow do not stack. I would say that increased unarmed attack DV would stack with either Break Weapon and Smashing blow but not together.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Beetayasol
Meat
Meat


Number of posts : 33
Age : 34
Location : Fort Worth, TX
Registration date : 2010-07-16

Character sheet
Character Name: Beetayasol
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Break Weapon is a martial arts maneuver, whereas Smashing Blow is an adept power. Two different sources.

The rules that I have read don't account for DV modifiers, but only Dice Poll modifiers. The rules for dice pool modifiers state that they stack.

So, if I have a Chameleon Suit which give a -4 to Visual Perception, I have the the Physical Camouflage Spell with 3 hits at force 4, that gives another -3 to Visual Perception. Now, if I cast the Mist Spell in a room at force 4 with 5 hits, I am imposing another -4 to Visual Perception. This means that anybody trying to look at me takes a -11 to their Visual Perception roll. And if somebody is using Thermal Vision to try to see through the mist, and I have a Thermal Coating on my Chameleon Suit at rating 4, there is another -4 penalty. This makes it -15 to Visual Perception Checks while only having to sustain one spell (-2 to all actions).

Shouldn't the rules for Damage Value be the same? I have a strength of 10 which gives me a DV of 5S. I have 4 different Martial Arts maneuvers that gives me a static +4 to my Unarmed DV. This brings my DV up from 5S to 9S. This is only for Marital Arts moves for now. I also have the Break Weapon that states "a character with the break weapon maneuver may make a Called Shot ... to attack the opponent's weapon; treat as destroying a Barrier." Remember that no Magical Power has been taken into effect yet. As such, if I was to attack a weapon, I would be going against a Reinforced Material (armored glass) at most dealing a 9 DV base which they can try to dodge. Now the magic comes into play. The Adept Power Smashing Blow states "an adept may focus his attack to break through obstacles. Multiply his base DV by 2 when preforming an unarmed strike on a barrier or other static structure." The "or other static structure" is the phrase that I am mostly concerned about. The word "or" states that it can be used when either apply.

Example:
  • You will win 500Y if the Colts or the Raiders when the Superbowl. If either win, you get the 500Y. If neither win, you get nothing. Hence, "or" means when either applies you get the bonus.


As such, since Break Weapon states that you treat the weapon as a barrier, and Smashing Blow states that you double your base DV when attacking Barriers, it should stack. I understand that you said it shouldn't, however you used the phrase "IMO." What rules did you use to have that as your opinion? I would like to do some more research to understand where you came up with that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WearzManySkins
Team Leader
Team Leader
avatar

Number of posts : 266
Age : 61
Location : DFW Texas
Registration date : 2010-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: WeaZManySkins
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:12 pm

Sorry I am not a RAW(Rules As Written) extremist aka RAWnista. Take your question over to the Dumpshock Forums, there you can see many taking the wording of RAW to interesting and not so interesting extremes.

IIRC martial arts DV bonuses only apply when using that style, I think there is only a few that allow taking +1 DV more than once Unarmed Combat attacks, but it has been 2 years since the various questions/questioning of Martial Arts and Maneuvers for same.
Boxing +2 DV
Capoeira +2 Dodge tests
Carromeleg +2 surprise test
Firefight Reduce Ranged Combat attacker in melee -2
Karate +2 defense tests
Kiai Attacks of Will +3 DV
Muay Thai Unarmed Combat +2 DV
Wrestling +2 dice subduing

Back to top Go down
View user profile
T_Hawk
Mr. Johnson
Mr. Johnson
avatar

Number of posts : 666
Age : 36
Registration date : 2009-02-19

Character sheet
Character Name: Shadow
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:52 pm

I agree with WearzManySkinz on the Metagenic Improvement interpretation.

I also agree that with visibility mods: they stack but you'll usually only extend that modifier to the worst given effect on the table. As for all the penalties you're stacking on top of the fog and such... it's up to your GM. Perfectly legal, but GM's can always cap off bonuses (and penalties.)

Nerve strike is susceptible to armor... however, if you're worried about armor, trying a called shot to an area that isn't armored (or perhaps, more lightly armored) is the thing to do: for example, even if you have an opponent who is wearing full military armor, the odds are that his neck will not be as heavily armored as the rest of him, simply because rigid armor around the neck will decrease its wearer's ability to move and respond in combat. Up to the GM's interpretation on the armor, however.

As for your interesting combination of powers and maneuvers... well, I would allow break weapon and smashing blow to stack. (I can't find increased unarmed damage today, for some reason... got a page number you can help me out with? Anyway, I don't see why I wouldn't allow it to stack in as well, though I can't be certain till I reference it) I see no reason why the combination wouldn't work.

However, while there may be no rules in the book for not allowing them to stack, WMZ's assertion that they won't is valid -if your GM thinks it is. Like so many things, when it comes to the game it's up to the GM what works and what doesn't, and the book explicitly gives rules for the GMs to invoke when they don't want a potentially game-breaking mechanic in play. Limiting dice pools is an example of this, and I see no reason it couldn't be applied to stacking damage as well.

For example, if you were to play in one of my game with a character built with these traits, I would allow all of them. However, I would also throw in modifiers against you in particular instances, in order to keep you from relying on that specific mechanic to the exclusion of any other sort of innovative gameplay.

For instance, I would apply different "breaking" modifiers against weapons. I'll offer examples using modern weaponry: Breaking an assault rifle like an M-16 (the colt M22, for example) would not result in any modifiers. The M-16 is built of plastic and light-weight alloys. Such materials, while perfectly suited to stand up to the rigors normally imposed on a weapon, aren't really made with the idea that someone trained in breaking cinder blocks with their bare hands might grab hold of the weapon and smash it apart. However, if you grabbed hold of an assault weapon built like a modern AK-47 (the AK-98 springs to mind in game) then I would increase the difficulty of the threshold. AK-47's are built from extremely durable compounds: hardwood and steel, compared to the M-16's plastics and alloy. The weapon is simply made to be as durable as possible (as anyone who's ever encountered the weapon in RL can testify... the thing simply doesn't break!) Now, finally, if your character got a hold of something like a Browning M2 machine gun, which is made almost completely from heavy duty steel parts, I may not allow you to break the gun at all... unless your character had some sort of ungodly strength multiplier. However, this sort of strength would have to be above and beyond even what a troll could be expected to have... steel just doesn't like to give. Under the right circumstance, I may allow your character to damage it enough so that it wouldn't work for it's wielder... but maybe not.

I hope that helps you. WMZ gave you a perfectly valid interpretation for the mechanic you described; he even told you "in my opinion." When it comes to combinations like this, the GM's opinion is what you need to go with - not whether the rules explicitly state whether you can or can't.

Now, as for WMZ's interpretation on martial arts... again, it's valid if the GM thinks it is. However, I haven't read it as excluding damage bonuses from other sources beyond the style's natural bonuses. WMZ, are you thinking of a particular passage from the book? I may be overlooking something... I never dismiss the possibility.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WearzManySkins
Team Leader
Team Leader
avatar

Number of posts : 266
Age : 61
Location : DFW Texas
Registration date : 2010-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: WeaZManySkins
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:23 pm

OK I am corrected in stacking and Stacking DV in Arsenal Errata:

p. 156 Martial Arts (Positive Quality) sidebar
Add the following sentence to the end of the third paragraph
“The maximum cumulative DV modifier possible is +3.”

Also page 156 of Arsenal:
A character gains the advantages of all martial
arts styles she knows; should they overlap,
these dice modifiers stack. The maximum number
of dice that can be added to or subtracted
from a character’s dice pool from martial art
modifiers is equal to the rating of the relevant
Combat skill.

So to get a +3 DV value you need a unarmed combat skill of at least a 3.

To get other maneuvers modifiers of 6 or 8 will require unarmed/armed combat skills of 6 or 8.

Here is the thread that discusses it.

Martial Arts DV Bonuses
Back to top Go down
View user profile
T_Hawk
Mr. Johnson
Mr. Johnson
avatar

Number of posts : 666
Age : 36
Registration date : 2009-02-19

Character sheet
Character Name: Shadow
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:33 pm

Looks good. Everything stacks as long as you can pay for the prereqs.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Beetayasol
Meat
Meat


Number of posts : 33
Age : 34
Location : Fort Worth, TX
Registration date : 2010-07-16

Character sheet
Character Name: Beetayasol
Race: Human
Sex: Male

PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:56 pm

Awesome. I missed the +3 max part. Thanks. Got everything I need here. Thanks everybody.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Few Questions   

Back to top Go down
 
Few Questions
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Some interesting questions
» 2 questions from a newbie
» Puppetry Questions
» Spirit Week Questions
» Weird and Wonderful Questions and Answers

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Shadowrun Online :: Library :: Archives :: Archives - :: Questions and Answers-
Jump to: