A Time For Secrets OOC

Lol! Yeah... Well, let's be thankful that Driver is getting back into the fray, that should hopefully keep us alive just a little bit longer to be able to formulate one!

I never did get any actual feedback on what was on that list though, even though if we take the flow of time into account Kess apparently spent several hours reading over the materials that was taken from the base. That's why it's so difficult for me to know what the hell to even look for on the list, because for all I know all any of the stuff I took contains is some one's grocery list.

Alrighty, give me till tomorrow night to get fully caught up on everything, i'll have a post up by then.

Kess, I'm working on it. This list wasn't something that Havick had put together before handing over to me, so as you can likely understand, it is somewhat of a challenge to match up what you've all managed to luck in to against his master plan of the particular run... This list is still in the process of being completed, although I do have a good start. That is one of the reasons why I asked for anything specific that you were looking for. It will be easier for me to firm up a portion of the lists contents than it is for me to finish up the entire thing. And it's quite likely that you do actually have a good idea of what kinds of things might turn out to be useful... Don't be afraid of potentially "creative" solutions either; the list is long. Really long.

Gala wrote:

And it's quite likely that you do actually have a good idea of what kinds of things might turn out to be useful... Don't be afraid of potentially "creative" solutions either; the list is long. Really long.

Wow so there's probably arms and armor in there G? Or some drones to defend us that would be great Although the armor probably wont be for trolls. we could always use more ammo Just putting it out there.

Well from Kess' side of things there's not much I can honestly do. Even if I had a .50 cal with APDS rounds. Not much good with heavy weapons either for lack of the skill, though maybe ghost could manage something if we happen to have any stingers or something like that aboard since he likely has a fair bit more strength than Kess to default on.

As for creative, dunno what would have a hope in hell of working without letting our attackers turn us to Swiss cheese.

Jamers and such could potentially help from a defensive side of things, but ultimately my own options are quite limited. I didn't dewing this char around vehicular combat, much less involving being shot at by fighter jets.

One thig does come to mind though, we could possibly buy some time if we use one of the soldiers radios to try and make the other guys think they had recapture the aircraft.

That's sounds good but when we dont comply with their orders the jig is up but could buy us some time good suggestion


And yeah kess pass LT a stinger he will throw it at them

no really i have no heavy guns or nothing like that. lol what the hell kind of troll am i!

Yhea but defaulting is a what? 1 or 2 dice penalty? Heavy weapons fall under strength if I recall. So the average troll can still be a decent shot with a SAM.

As to the jig bein up, we only need to comply long enough to set up an ambush. If we can get em to line up with us I can at least ty to put a rifle round into the pilot through the canopy or take out one of their engines. Or come up with some other idea.

Being a little bit out of my depth here (I am not even remotely a heavy-weapons expert) I did some research online and in SR4. I have concluded that a .50cal would have absolutely no trouble causing damage to a jet, if you could hit it. A mounted .50cal full-auto Machine Gun would be more than a little effective as an anti-aircraft gun. But, that's not the only thing you're likely to be able to dig up in the arsenal of the standard ShadowRunner which would be an effective Anti-Aircraft weapon. Heat-Seeking LAWs would be far more effective than a .50cal, and almost as likely. A .50cal loaded sniper rifle with APDS or HE rounds would be extremely effective.
But again, I really am only representing nearly the least possible level of "creativity". Standardized weapons are only just barely on the bottom rung of the "creativity" ladder considering weapons available. Off the top of my head, I can think of quite a large number of "weapons" that any cargo jet would likely have against an attacking jet, if they had the manpower to wield them. That job, however, is up to you to realize and utilize. And by inviting you all to be creative in this situation, or any, sometimes you will come up with ideas that I didn't consider. That's when things get really exciting.

As "Creativity" goes, I had a troll in one of my games once run out of explosives while assaulting an armed holdout. She was a full-sized basher-style cybered troll, but she didn't have the correct enhancements to use her body directly, and didn't have a car handy. She ended up grabbing a metal desk, and attacking the group of guards using it simultaneously as a shield and weapon. Needless to say, we still tease her about her specialization in "desk-fu".
My point: Standardized weapons are very mildly creative in air-to-air combat, since they are certainly non-standard in that situation. But you can, and should, be able to do a LOT better in the creativity department.

yeah my troll is smaller then most trolls, and as such did not give him as much str as most trolls. He is in fact one point stronger then your shape shifter. which makes him pretty weak as far as trolls go. When i made him i did not take str into consideration . Sorry i went for speed and agility why its the way he was raised and what his friend taught him. I should have taken more troll like attributes, but was my first troll soo dropped the ball on that. i did not have on hand the chart that shows attributes and comparisons. Such as three is normal human and blah blah blah. this led to a lack good judgment where trolls are concerned. but i went for a style i sorta accomplished, skill wise. also i made his age pretty young hoping it would show a lack of physical attribute and skill maturity. like i said the concept is sound street kid gone professional who just happens to be a troll. but there was a lack of game knowledge when built sorry guys. That all being said im more then happy to try kess's idea if anyone can find a sam im sooo there

Well, here's the interesting part about Law, they can't actually engage us in international waters, since we haven't tried to attack them yet.

You should read some of the most recent messages then... not only did they engage you, they're shooting to kill. Driver's been managing to dodge their missiles, but they most definitely are using them.

wngd_phantom wrote:

Well, here's the interesting part about Law, they can't actually engage us in international waters, since we haven't tried to attack them yet.

This is shadowrun, law doesn't matter if no one else is alive to prove you broke any.

That and just because you get over international waters, does NOT mean they cant shoot at you. I'm pretty sure even legally speaking, given that we are from the UCAS, and that we attacked them in the UCAS and they started persuit from the UCAS they have every legal right they need to shoot us down over international waters as they can effectively claim ownership to everything we've stolen.

I was going to say we did start shooting up there base that sounds like they should have the go ahead i mean i think i shot a few in the legs myself lol

Yeah, and ultimately the friendly debate about law is irrelevant from a practical perspective. As I've already inconveniently pointed out, they already did start shooting. And from everything you can seem to gather, it was intended to kill. So, Driver needs to keep driving like an ace to keep you all alive...

Anyway on the issue of non standard tactics, I don't honestly see that we have too many options other than throwing drek out of the plane at them which is hardly effective given the maneuvers were pulling not to mention incredibly dangerous. I doubt the aircraft has any sort of parachute braking system or smoke dispensers since those tend to be pointless except on highly specialized aircraft, though if we did have that sort of thing I'd assume Driver would notice it pretty early since he should be getting some sort of weapons system readout from the plane.

Now Ashe, if we can wake her up might be able to throw a number of spiffy things out there in the way of spells, though given how badly she was beat up before this latest sonic attack thing she may well be in pretty rough shape. If this were a ground based chase there would be a hell of a lot more options but there's on the whole a whole lot less you can do in an air to air fight. I suppose worse case we could try to get them to stop shooting at us by announcing we have the captives aboard but I'd rather try and use the soldiers coms to pretend they'd taken over the plane first. That way we could try to lure them in closer as an 'escort' and give us a free shot to blow them out of the sky.

Thank you, Kess.

Well the only reason I mention it is because if we happen to have such things you should thus be made aware of them. Smoke may be useful for faking severe damage o the plane and if we do have braking shues you can try to get one of the planes behind us nice and close, pop then realise the Shute. That should either blind he aircraft, or better yet get sucked into their air intakes and kill one or more engines.

Btw sorry bout the bad speing but my phone autocorrection refuses to stop chanin some words on me etc.

Driver is fully up-to-speed on the capabilities of the Aircraft. Phantom: If there are any capabilities which you need me to catch you up on, let me know. That said, the jet does not have a chute break, since it was designed as a cargo jet, but it's propulsion has been significantly upgraded. While the jet IS currently flying heavy, it still maneuvers more like a jet than a plane. That said, it's a brick compared to what's chasing you all.
Top speed on the jet is super-sonic. Although precisely what the top speed is is unknown, since it's modifications are non-standard, they aren't published. Driver has already noticed that Accel is MUCH higher than published statistics for the jet. Although, again, it's flying heavy and is much less responsive than your pursuers. Driver is quite familiar with 2-d vehicular combat, and knows that his maneuverability will be higher than his opponents at lower speeds. The problem is that the accel differences between the jet and your pursuers is likely to be vast enough that they will simply do routine fly-by attacks until they succeed. Driver has already gone through this in his head, again because of his specialties.

So really at this point the only thig we could do to try and help is by throwing drek out of the plane, which is probably near suicidal under present circumstances.

Hey ghost?

I crunched some numbers, and I was wrong bout Heavy Weapons still being linked to strength (They are where recoil compensation is concerned, along with the ability to actually carry them but not to actually use). Do you happen to have anything that will give you vision magnification? If not you won't hit drek because of the range modifiers negating your dice pool, even if you had a smartlink.

Now, Kess has his sniper rifle with him too if I recall (in it's presently broken down form). Which happens to feature a rail mounted scope and external smartgun system. Considering were in an aircraft full of guns I'm sure we can quickly dig up a screwdriver to take those off of Kess' sniper rifle and slap em onto either a machine gun or one of the assault cannons depending on your personal preference. Now taking into account we are up against military vehicles here they probably have an armour rating between 12 and 18. This makes SAMS, Heavy Machine guns and Assault cannons our best bet.

I think I'm still going to try and dig up a SAM since I think especially in Ghost's case we could do with him getting a sensor bonus from lock on too.

Either way it does mean we have some options. I suppose I could even try to use my sniper rifle, which means I'd get no penalty. It wouldn't be any worse than the machineguns since i"m using EX-EX rounds that would give it a 9P -4 AP damage code, though that said it would probably inflict minimal damage since the vehicle would be running an armour rating of 8 against a damage code of 9. So counting in body dice it would be making a pretty hefty roll. If Kess goes that route though he'll have to assemble the rifle first which will take a while since it's manual rather than 'powered' assembly and he's got no armourer skill and will have to default and thus not have many dice for the test in a situation where he's bound to have penalties.

Assault cannons on the other hand offer up a whopping minimum of -5 AP from the get go using basic ammunition and since we scored a gauss rifle of all things news gets even better. Gauss rifles half armour before applying the AP modifier and then still do 9P damage so it would just about strip away all of the aircrafts armour, even if it had a very high amount. That makes it the best bet we have of the lot for shooting anything down.

The only argument for Kess assembling his rifle is that then he would take no defaulting penalty, and have a considerable number of dice to throw into the test....

So our best be may be the following:
Dig up a SAM

OR
Assemble Kess' rifle, remove the scope and slap it on the Gauss rifle which comes with a smartlink. THis gives us 2 smartlinked weapons and guarantees we each have vision magnification. Ghost wouldn't have too many dice with the gauss rifle but it's semi auto so maybe he can make up for it in volume of fire.

That said the HMGs are not a bad idea either since Ghost can fire narrow bursts for a fairly nice bonus as well, or he could use other bursts to make up for his low dice pool by inflicting an evasion penalty to the aircraft. If you go that route though I'll probably have Kess use the gauss rifle if I cant dig up an actual SAM.

I'll give this round one shot at finding an actual honest to god SAM launcher but otherwise I'm probably better off just going with the scenario above.

I also found that apparently it's very easy in SR4 to shoot down aircraft, despite what I had previously believed.

Mind if we try subversion before shooting them?

Nah I'm all for it considering I think it gives us a better chance, and if nothing else? It's an excellent way to buy us some time to improve our defences if they actually buy it.